Can't count anybody out in NFC North

A 13-3 record won the NFC North in 2006 and 2007. For that to happen again this year, the Bears need to finish 10-1, the Vikings and Packers 11-0 and the Lions ... well, they have no shot after an 0-4 start.

Detroit isn't giving up on the division, however. At least that's what the Lions are telling reporters in Detroit.

"You guys might laugh at this, but we've still got 12 games left, and our division's not that strong right now," receiver Mike Furrey said. "There's a lot of teams in our division struggling. It's not like we're out of it."

Yes, the Lions have been outscored by 81 points, the most ever by a Lions team through four games. Yes, they've been outscored 38-0 in the first quarter and rank last in the league in turnover differential (minus-6), total defense, scoring defense and a bunch of other things.

But Furrey has a point. If the Lions are able to snap out of a funk that's historically bad even for them, they do still reside in the 2008 version of the NFC North. They're 2 1/2 games behind the Bears (3-2) and 1 1/2 games behind the Vikings (2-3) and Packers (2-3) heading into Sunday's game at the Metrodome.

The NFC North's combined 7-12 record ranks seventh among eight divisions. Only the NFC West (6-12) is worse.

The NFC North is, however, the only division that has a two-loss leader that hasn't beaten a team that currently has a winning record. The Bears are 0-2 against Carolina and Tampa Bay.

"Yeah, it's not the most dominating division in football," Vikings defensive end Jared Allen said. "Chicago leads it at 3-2. Detroit is pretty far behind, but [Furrey] is right. Nobody is out of it yet, in any division. Obviously, the Lions have to have that mentality. Are they going to come out and say, 'Yeah, we're out of it. We're going to fold now'? No."

The Lions have not been competitive at any point this season. They fell behind Atlanta 21-0 in the season opener and "never recovered," according to quarterback Jon Kitna. The Lions went on to trail the Packers 21-0, the 49ers 21-3 and the Bears 24-0.

Kitna was asked to compare this poor start to his other two years with Detroit and the five years in Cincinnati before that.

"In Cincinnati, I think, one year we went 2-14, but we were very competitive," Kitna said. "Aside from about two or three games, we were right there in them until the last drive of the fourth quarter. That hasn't been the case here to start the year."

Kitna has started the past 36 games for Detroit. But he was pulled because of back spasms with Detroit trailing 24-0 last week. His status for Sunday's game is uncertain. If he can't play, Dan Orlovsky, who finished last week's game, would make his first NFL start.

Since the NFL went to eight divisions in 2002, the winner of the NFC North has had at least 10 victories. The Packers have won four of the six titles. They did it with 12 wins in 2002, 10 wins in 2003 and 2004, and 13 wins last year. The Bears own the other two division titles. They won it with 11 wins in 2005 and 13 wins in 2006, the year they went to the Super Bowl.

"I wouldn't say it's a weak division this year at all," Vikings receiver Bobby Wade said. "It's just kind of the way the records are coming down. I think it's very possible that nine wins takes the division. But none of that matters once you get to the playoffs.

"You can look at the NFC East right now and say it's the toughest division. But it's kind of like awarding a paper champion to say that this early in the season."

The NFC North is 1-7 against non-NFC North teams that currently have winning records. The lone victory was the Vikings' 20-10 win against NFC South-leading Carolina (4-1) at the Metrodome on Sept. 21.

The Packers have lost three consecutive games to non-NFC North teams that now have winning records. They also play three of their next four games on the road.

Among NFC North teams, the Vikings had the toughest schedule through the first five weeks. They played teams with a combined 15-9 record (.625).

Now, Minnesota has the easiest schedule in the division over the next four games. They play teams with a combined 5-13 record (.278). They also have three home games, including two against teams that haven't won (Lions and Texans).

"I've been on teams that overlooked teams that had 0-4 records," Wade said. "But you can't overlook anybody when you're in our shoes. It's a lot easier for a 5-0 team to overlook an 0-4 team than a 2-3 team to overlook anybody when they're still scratching and clawing to win any game they can."

That's life in the NFC North this year.